Originally Posted by admin
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Perhaps your judgement should take dishonesty into account.


I put up a link to an article that criticizes the ecological establishment for dishonesty but from a political perspective diametrically opposed to yours. Your shared moral disapproval with these grass roots ecologists is of no use to you politically, because you are in fundamental political disagreement with their critique.

You have no hope whatsoever of winning them to your climate change sceptic and "states rights" perspective. It is only on the basis of the politics that I propose that your and their respective "grass roots" orientations could work together. Your grassroots perspective is a party-political perspective (as is theirs, of course).

Will both of you be able to be won over to an orientation that starts from Greece, where democracy originated??

Or will the internal political conflicts of the United States continue to be projected over the whole world as the internal political problems of planet Earth?

Originally Posted by admin

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There are Europeans also, Eurosceptics, who have the same "states rights" perspective, equally unreal. The question today is control by the corporate media, and ways of dealing with it.


Corporate media is run by the same people (literally and essentially) who run the United Nations. If you think you're going to "deal" with them, then you are fantastically naive.


And yet a group of shrewd activists in an NGO managed to get through a moratorium that is in NO way to the liking of these dominant forces in the corporate media and in the UN. They did this through respecting the required mythology concerning chemtrails, i.e. that they don't exist.

In that way they have opened a loophole.

Perhaps the reason that you don't perceive that loophole is the same as the reason that you didn't perceive the loophole that opened up with the collapse of the USSR, or that you should have been calling with all your might for the abolition of the Soviet nuclear arsenal (to avert the re-establishment of business-as-usual "behind new masks").

You just let things happen and then respond to the new situation as if it is inevitable.

Originally Posted by admin

The states are the only entities that have the legal right to petition the federal government.

This has happened several times in U.S. history, so you may need to study a little more to understand this approach.


Perhaps you will have some chance of implementing a strategy of this kind if you can overcome the stereotyping of your politics that will be (and is) imposed by the corporate media, and if you can gain the trust of the other side of politics who also oppose the "corruption" of the ecological establishment (and their more powerful masters).

People like the authors of the article to which I posted the link.

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The climate change debate is a divisive debate.

Originally Posted by admin

I am astounded when people tell me that arguing the truth is "divisive".



Well, stop being astounded because you have enough data at your disposal to perceive the divisiveness.

Originally Posted by admin

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Not surprisingly: it has been constructed in order to divide.


No, actually the data shows that there is NO global warming. I have posted the data curve and asked you to tell me what your issue with the data is, and as of yet, you have not.

Why?


Because, as indicated, I believe that the mainstream climate change debate should be replaced by a mainstream debate centered on the phenomenon of chemtrails and the geoengineering proposals currently being floated. If I started involving myself in discussion of the mainstream climate debate with you I would be going contrary to my own political recommendations.

Originally Posted by admin

The only divisive thing here is a lie, and global warming is THE lie being used to justify chemtrails.

It's the Hegelian Dialectic:

1. Create a problem. (Thesis)

2. Offer a radical solution. (Antithesis)

3. Settle on a moderate solution. (Synthesis)

By supporting global warming, you are participating in that lie and you offer nothing to oppose the data:


Hegel is one of mankind's great philosophers and it is a travesty to reduce his thought to this caricature, as if the people who use the technique you are calling "the Hegelian dialectic" are the masters of history. The Hegelian dialectic exists in history qua history, not history as perceived by a certain specific cabal of would-be manipulators.


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To be frank I could not care less which side of the climate debate is closer to the truth. It is a debate for scientists.


Originally Posted by admin

Leaving this debate up to the scientists has been the first problem. Scientists can become corrupt, which is the root of the very issue we face today.


I think the ETC group scientists are not corrupt. Therefore I believe we should extend credence to scientists who are prepared publicly to support the Hands off Mother Earth proposals, withdrawing credence and toleration from scientists who are not prepared publicly to support the Hands off Mother Earth proposals.

But we should impose conditions on dialogue with the ETC group/HOME also, namely that they do not speak to the media about whether chemtrails exist or not. This is an area where they too have told lies, even if in pursuit of a valuable strategic objective. So we should insist that they adopt this stance towards the media. This will create good preconditions also for a more systematic policy of detaching politics from the control of the corporate media and empowering citizens who practice politics using their own channels of communication.

Originally Posted by admin

You have NO data to support global warming, yet you continue to say it's true.


I have merely said that this is a subject I don't propose to discuss with you.


Last edited by enouranois; 12/01/10 05:55 AM.